Stockton

	Malone

In the wake of reports that Karl Malone was in discussions to be traded to the Dallas Mavericks, Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller was feeling quite verbose Wednesday night.

In a wide-ranging interview with ESPN.com at the Delta Center, Miller not only shed light on the Malone trade rumors, but he also disclosed that the Jazz may finally have reached the end of an era, that All-Star point guard John Stockton will retire at the end of the year if Utah's run actually is over, and that Miller would not mind selling the team if he could find a buyer committed to keeping the franchise in Salt Lake City.

Before whipping the Seattle SuperSonics Wednesday night to improve to 6-9, the Jazz had looked disinterested this year in their worst start in 19 seasons, lethargic and, essentially, the team that many prognosticators predicted they would be a half a decade or more ago. Miller is coming close to agreeing with that assessment.

"The question bears more credence now than ever," Miller said. "I think at 5-9, I am not willing to concede that it is here. But 10 games from now, or 15 games from now, and we are still of a similar record percentage-wise, I think I just have to say it is here.

"But it wouldn't take much for us to be 9-5 instead of 5-9. I have seen flurries. I know that we still have it in us. The problem is getting it out of us. If we just can't put together more consistently than we have, there is no question that we have a problem and that we really have to start thinking about rebuilding for the future in a different way than we have been willing to concede to this point."

	Miller is wary of his franchise turning into a lottery team.

That, of course, sounds as if Miller is willing to trade Malone and Stockton. But Miller said he and Stockton have an agreement that will permit him to retire after this season even though he is under contract for one more season beyond this.

"John told me for five years if we traded him he wouldn't go," Miller said. "He told me that five years ago. He said he would retire. So he would not be in the same category as Karl in that way.

"Basically, John's contract is a two-year contract, just as his last contract was. But, at the end of the last contract in the middle year, if he and I could not look each other in the eye and I say, 'I want you back,' and he says, 'I want to be back,' then he would not come back for the second year. And that would be without paying him the money. The reason for that is we both agree that we can talk to each other about anything, but when we talk about money it is more awkward. So we don't want to go through it every year.

"So this year we talked about a one-year deal. At first he said he didn't want to do a two-year. Then when we got together again ... I said, 'I don't want to automatically count you out after one year if you are still feeling well.' He said, 'Why don't we do it the way we did it before. We will do a two-year deal, and if at the end of that you don't want me, I will just ride off into the sunset.' That's where it is with him. With Karl it is different because he is under contract for two more."

I asked Stockton Wednesday night about his agreement with Miller.

"There's no reason to even discuss it," he said. "We are playing basketball. I have no intention to start thinking about that. My concentration is out there on the court."

That leaves the Malone trade rumors. Here, Miller says, is what happened.

"My position for 16 years, which I have articulated to Karl, is my plan is to have him retire in a Jazz uniform, and hopefully with the (NBA) scoring record. He has a no-trade clause. He has never asked to be traded. But at the end of this last year, he said, 'Look, will you give me some assurance that we can go out and get some free agents ... or do a trade or something that can put us right there as contenders?' I said there is no way to guarantee that. We are over the cap. So we are limited there. I said I can't guarantee that.

"We always try to make the team better and compete. He said, 'Well, I really want to win a championship.' I said, 'I know that.' This is like June or July. So he says, 'If you can put me on a championship contender now, but where you get something good back where you can be competitive for the future, would you be amenable to that?' But he worded it, if it is good for you and if it is good for me. I said we would look at it.

"So we talked about it a little between us. Nothing definitive, but we looked around to see who could do a trade like that. Who had numbers in terms of salary. We talked to (Karl) about it, we talked to Dwight Manley (Malone's agent) about it, and we just said it is not feasible. That is all that happened. For it to come up five months later and have it reported as something imminent, it was quite a surprise to me."

Miller said the Mavericks were the only team he had concrete discussions with.

"Dallas was one of the teams we talked about. They only wanted to move one player (reportedly Juwan Howard), and that one player is not worth what Karl is. There were four or five teams total. I don't know that we got into specifics with other teams. We were looking for teams that were motivated. Dallas was the only one we had specific discussions with. The other teams, we didn't even get to first base. I don't know if they didn't want to play because they didn't want to pay his salary. I think New Jersey was another one of the teams. The other two teams were not in the West, because I don't want to put him in the West if we don't have to."

What that means, essentially, is that Miller still would be willing to trade Malone if the Jazz continue to struggle and if a team is willing to give something in return for Malone.

"We know when John and Karl are gone, it is going to be a whole new world," Miller said. "What we are trying to do is avoid the slump and fall into what the Celtics and Lakers did, where you go into a slump and have to dig yourself out over a long time. We are trying to draft and trade around it, but to do that we have to go young. It can't be veterans. I understand that thinking (about being bad for a long time) is there, we have to consider it, but we are trying to avoid it. That may be wishful thinking."

Finally, Miller said, he wants to keep the team because of his desire to keep it in Utah. But if somebody came along, made a good offer and promised to keep it in the shadows of the Wasatch Mountains, he would strongly consider it.

"Yes, I have considered selling the team, but in the reverse of what you are thinking," Miller said. "Because what I feel is the time that the team needs me the most is when the tough times come, when Karl and John are gone. I am not trying to pat myself on the back, but if this team is going to remain in this market, it is going to have to be somebody who cares about the team more than just economically, who cares about the soul and the spirit. That probably sounds a little corny.

"So if I could find that replacement, who was as committed to keep it here as much as I am, there are a lot of days I wouldn't mind having somebody else go through the headaches. But I'm not sure that person exists. Until that person comes out of the woodwork, my thing is I need to stay here through the tough times if they come. Certainly 5-9 argues that they might be here."

Frank Hughes covers the NBA for the Tacoma (Wash.) News-Tribune. He is a regular contributor to ESPN.com.