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| Tuesday, June 3 |
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| Kim: Inconclusive weekend with Mosley-Marquez By Steve Kim Maxboxing.com | |||
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You want to talk about a major buzz kill. Here we had the anticipated return of Shane Mosley at the Mandalay Bay and just when it looked like his bout with Raul Marquez was heating up, cuts caused by accidental headbutts would end the fight in the third round. We were left with a 'no decision' and beyond that, everyone would leave Las Vegas with nothing answered.
"Inconclusive," is how Kery Davis of HBO Sports would describe the events of this past Saturday night. "There's not much you could tell. We wanted to see whether or not Shane carried the weight at 154 pounds. We really didn't get a chance to see much. I mean, he looked strong but there were times when he had some problems with Raul's size and strength, we couldn't tell a lot tonight."
"Exactly. Nothing was proven," agreed HBO's boxing analyst Larry Merchant, at the post-fight press conference. "Maybe we want to see him (Mosley) in another fight at this weight before he fights De La Hoya. Maybe this emboldens De La Hoya, thinks that it ain't that tough or maybe the negotiation comes to a grinding halt and we're all looking at different fights."
It's a shame because what was thought to be a blowout was actually developing into an intriguing fight with Marquez more than holding his own. While Mosley had the clear advantage in speed and quickness, Marquez's advantage in natural size and strength were also very evident at times. You got the sense that you were watching a similar type of bout that occurred when Mosley made his welterweight debut against Wilfredo Rivera in September of 1999 -- a fight that was closely contested until Mosley stopped the game Puerto Rican in the 10th and final round. It was pretty clear that from the three rounds he boxed against Marquez in his jr. middleweight debut that Mosley is not the same fighter he was at 135 or even 147 pounds.
"He had speed but not the kind I thought he would," said Marquez. "It didn't surprise me. Bob Mittleman told me that when Rivera fought him, Rivera was dealing with his speed and that was the thing that worried me the most."
Mittleman who manages Marquez's career also guided Rivera into his bout with Mosley. He had been telling anyone that would listen that the same type of fight that occurred with Rivera could easily happen with Marquez.
"We would really like to fight Shane Mosley in a rematch if it's a possibility," Mittleman told the gathered media afterwards. "I don't know if there's a spot for it, but we'd like to look for a spot. Once again, I thought it was going to be tremendous fight -- except for the accidental headbutts."
Debate lingered into the night as to who was to blame for the butts that caused deep cuts on both the right and left eye of Marquez, who had his reputation as a 'bleeder' reinforced. Both camps vacillated on who caused which clash of heads and the Mosley camp claimed that the second cut over Marquez left eye was in reality, a sharp right hand. The debate went back and forth as both fighters addressed the media.
"I felt Shane was gonna knock him out the next round anyway," said his father/trainer Jack Mosley, who perhaps had a Freudian slip by referring to Marquez as Vernon Forrest. "I thought Shane had too much power for him really going to the body with some good right hands."
Later he would add "Shane hit Raul with a right hand that opened the cut over his left eye."
And then he would rub salt in the wide open wounds of Marquez by adding "He felt like he was going to be knocked out, so he spit the mouthpiece out and he just basically quit. And that's the way I see it. I'm not taking anything away from Raul Marquez but he was just getting hurt with those body shots and he couldn't do nothing about it and he got frustrated."
Which brought this response from Marquez, who had just left the podium and had overheard the trainers comments.
"Jack, I quit?!?!" asked an incredulous Marquez. "C'mon Jack, c'mon!!!"
"Nah, I just think you quit. I think you quit," replied Mosley, with his son Shane tugging at his father's shirt to stop the rhetoric. "I think he quit. But I think the body shots were getting to him."
"How could you say I quit, Jack!?!?" Marquez said with his anger rising and his handlers trying to calm him down.
"We can talk one-on-one, me and you, about that," responded Mosley as he turned over the mic back to his son.
Shane, to no one's surprise, took the high road.
"I can't say if Raul quit, but I know that his eye was cut very deep and like I said, he came to fight. He's a former champion. He's a warrior, he worked out very hard and trained very hard for that fight and I give him credit for stepping in there and fighting," said Mosley, although he did insist that it was a right hand -- and not a clash of heads -- that caused the nasty gash over Marquez's left eye.
Let's just say this is what happens when an orthodox fighter faces a southpaw. It's almost inevitable that collisions of noggins will occur. Especially when you have two offensive minded fighters that like to come forward and mix it up. But the question is, did Marquez quit?
I felt Marquez made a terrible mistake after the second clash of heads by just turning away, spitting out his mouthpiece and going towards his corner. It left a bad impression on the fans who clearly felt that Marquez was doing his own version of 'no mas'. There's no doubt that the fight would have been stopped -- and rightfully so -- but all Marquez had to do was keep fighting and eventually have the doctor examine him and no one would have said a thing.
Instead, by taking the initiative himself, it looked as though he could have been looking for a way out. But perhaps Marquez knew the inevitable, that with his history, this fight would be halted. That's what his former Olympic teammate seems to think.
"I think just from previous fights, he knew that it was over because he slices up real easy and he knew that this was a great opportunity for him to get back in the business," opined Chris Byrd, IBF heavyweight titlist, who was at the fight.
But being in the position Marquez was in, doesn't he have to fight at all costs -- given the fact that Davis said HBO had no plans of making a rematch -- and you fight until they pull you out?
"You do fight on 'till the referee comes in and says 'Hey, this is over'" agreed Byrd. "But knowing how he slices up, he KNEW, he KNEW, that when the other eye got cut -- it was over. So he spit the mouthpiece out and I think he was trying to complain about the headbutts, which were all accidental. But he felt Shane was trying to do it on purpose since he thought he was getting in Shane's grip in the fight.
"It's a disappointing ending because it turned out to be a real good fight, it was really heating up."
Which is true. Marquez was in the fight and you just wonder what could have happened in the later rounds. Yes, it's understandable that Marquez was feeling anger, pain, frustration and despair after the second clash of heads, but being in the position he's in, you don't fight or react like you have a rematch clause that doesn't exist. This was a one-shot deal for Marquez who was brought in expressly as an opponent for HBO's favored son, Mosley.
"I can't disagree with that. I think he's in that position and you don't know how a fighter is programming all of this," agreed Merchant, who says that there are other ramifications to all this based on how this fight ended for Marquez. "But I think he has to understand now, that like a Jesse James Leija, who bleeds all the time, people who put on fights for television and pay a lot of money are very reluctant to have to go into a fight thinking this could end any minute for any reason."
"If it was up to me, I would have continued," insisted Marquez. "When they checked the first cut, I was like 'nah, nah, I'm OK' and I was just trying to rush to get him out of there and try to catch him with a good shot and that's when the second headbutt happened and the rest is history."
Marquez's heart and courage have never been questioned -- only his scar tissue -- but a dying man who swears he wants to live doesn't consult with Dr. Jack Kervorkian. Marquez should have kept at it until they pulled him out (which they would have done) and there would have been no controversy.
NOW WHAT?
So does Mosley take the $4 million offer to fight a rematch with De La Hoya in September?
"We have to go into negotiations and see if we can come in with the fight with De La Hoya," Mosley said with his promoter Barry Frank of IMG stood next to him at the press conference dais. "We go back and see what's fair, if not, we don't do a De La Hoya fight. We look for other champions out there and other big fights."
Arum was not at the press conference as he had a charity function to attend to. But his absence seemed to say clearly 'Hey, do what you want. As far as I'm concerned I thought we had a deal. I'm done negotiating this.'
As you looked at the crowd at the Mandalay Bay Events Center, you had to wonder just how much leverage Mosley really has. It's been almost a year-and-a-half since his last victory (in July of 2001, when he knocked Adrian Stone cold) and there were plenty of empty seats in an arena configured to hold about 5,000 folks. And while the fight did a strong walk-up, most of it was from Tijuana, who came to see WBO welterweight titlist Antonio Margarito.
But what happened this past weekend doesn't really effect De La Hoya's plans.
"I don't think it effects anything because right now, Shane is saying he's not going to do the deal that's on the table," said Davis of HBO Sports, "and I don't think this changes anyone's bargaining position. I think everything stays status quo."
You wonder though, if you can blame Mosley for turning down $4 million bucks to face De La Hoya, when he was getting up to two and three million to face the likes of Shannon Taylor and Adrian Stone. You can almost understand why Mosley would scoff at 'only' four million to face 'the Golden Boy' -- even on a three bout non-winning streak.
BAYLESS I've been a big proponent of Kenny Bayless. I think he's one of the game's best referee's but he didn't have a very good night being the third man for Mosley-Marquez.
Yes, the fight was a very difficult and awkward one to officiate but he seemed to lose a little control out there and when Marquez turned away and spit out his mouthpiece. I thought Bayless had to immediately take control of the situation by telling Marquez to start fighting or ask him if he's quitting -- and if he wasn't -- get him right back out there. It seemed Marquez was calling a 20 second time-out and this isn't the NBA. Only the referee can do that. There are no time-outs in boxing, theoretically. He put Mosley, Marquez and himself, in a peculiar position by not taking the bull by the horns.
Too many times in today's fight game I see fighters playing the role of referee by calling their own low blows and then the refs let the fighters take breaks in the action -- even if they didn't see the foul. Or how 'bout when the fighters look to the ref for help in the middle of the fight when they feel a foul has been committed by their opponent and they look for a stop in action. That must make the old-school cringe. What would Jack Dempsey and Jack Sharkey think of all this?
MANDALAY BAY MEDIA ROOM
They've always had the softest towels, the best bathrooms and now they've got the best media room in the business, bar none.
It's a virtual Taj Majal for us media types when we cover a fight 'where the flying fishes play'. There is an internet cafe. There's plush sofas to lounge on, plenty of electrical outlets and of course, good eats -- from nachos to hot dogs and ice cream bars, they feed us freeloaders well. One suggestion guys, I loved the quesadillas a couple of weeks ago, now how 'bout some mini-pizzas in the future and some ice cold beers waiting for us for the post-fight presser?
FINAL FLURRIES
Call me crazy, but I think WBO welterweight titlist Antonio Margarito has more than a decent shot at beating WBA/WBC titlist Ricardo Mayorga... Kelly Pavlik won via second round KO against Eduardo Gutierrez on the undercard. 'The Ghost' has tools but they need to be sharpened up and his management is looking at bringing him to Las Vegas to hone his skills... Jr. lightweight Jose Lopez, who dusted Allen Litzau in one round in his pro debut, is a prospect to look out for... By the way, has Joe Cortez stopped the Margarito-Lewis fight yet? Geez, he's barely 'firm or fair' anymore and now he's not even fast... By the way, is there any other fights that WBC dictator Jose Sulaiman is putting the kibosh on? Make no doubt about it, the Barrera-Larios fight isn't happening because of Sulaiman's feud with Barrera's manager Ricardo Maldonado, which goes back years. Someone even told me that Guty Espadas won't take a Barrera fight because of his loyalty to the WBC. Could it be that Kevin Kelley or Derrik Gainer (gasp!!!) are still in the running to face Barrera on April 12th?
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